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In this edition of the NAI Nashville Market Report podcast, I spoke with Tom Chevins the Senior Vice President for Regus Group Americas about their unique product offering, and the new location that just opened in Cool Springs.

Please be sure to listen to the entire interview because Tom has an exclusive special offer to listeners of this podcast — FREE OFFICE SPACE!  Find out how to take advantage of this offer in the interview.  This product is great for emerging businesses, and is sure worth giving it a try.

If you’re reading this through email or an RSS reader, please be sure to stop by our web site to get more information on these issues and many others affecting our marketplace in Nashville, Tennessee.  Or subscribe to these podcasts in iTunes to stay up to date

Please feel free to send us your feedback about the podcast, or inquire further about the special offer by contacting us any time by calling (615) 850-2700, or emailing me directly at podcast@nainashville.com

In this edition of the NAI Nashville Market Report podcast, I spoke with Timothy Downey the President and CEO of the Southern Land Company about their new mixed-use development in the Cool Springs area called McEwen.

If you’re reading this through email or an RSS reader, please be sure to stop by our web site to get more information on these issues and many others affecting our marketplace in Nashville, Tennessee.

Please feel free to send us your feedback about the podcast, or inquire further about this development by contacting us any time by calling (615) 850-2700, or emailing me directly at podcast@nainashville.com

In this edition of the NAI Nashville Market Report podcast, I spoke with Jim Garrett the Senior VP of Network Operations and Tom Garland the VP of Client Development with NAI Global about how our industry has become a global marketplace and the impact it has on us locally.

If you’re reading this through email or an RSS reader, please be sure to stop by our web site to get more information on these issues and many others affecting our marketplace in Nashville, Tennessee.

Please feel free to send us your feedback about the podcast, or inquire further about this development by contacting us any time by calling (615) 850-2700, or emailing me directly at podcast@nainashville.com

Tony Giarratana
“Signature Tower”
(Giarratana Development)
November 10, 2007

TG: Is Signature Tower going to go? Yes. In fact, it is going to go. The excavation for this project takes five months and we’re looking to start that work this calendar year.

(Music Up)

MK: This is the NAI Nashville report for Saturday, November the 10th, 2007. I’m Marc Krejci, the Director of Market Research here at NAI. This is a podcast where we feature commercial real estate trends and happenings in the Nashville, Tennessee area and beyond.

You just heard my guest on today’s podcast, Tony Giarratana. Tony has completely changed the face of Nashville with his developments from the Encore condos to the Viridian, to the upcoming Signature Tower. In today’s podcast, we talk about his developments, his career path and what’s looking forward for him.

It’s a very exciting discussion. Hopefully, you’ll have time to sit through the entire interview. If you haven’t already, please go to our website and subscribe to this podcast on iTunes by clicking on the iTunes button. There, you can also listen to past episodes of this podcast where we’ve interviewed other professionals in the commercial real estate and development industries.

So, let’s jump into our interview with Tony Giarratana.

(Music Out)

TG: My name is Tony Giarratana and I attended school at the University of South Florida in Tampa. Having grown up in Clearwater, the University of South Florida was a short drive away. I got a degree in Finance there.

While I was in my senior year, I had a chilling thought that I’d be a banker and decided that I would take matters into my own hands, looked around and saw that the real estate guys were having a great time developing in Tampa, Clearwater and along the beachfront, the bay. I said, “That’s what I want to do.” So I got into the real estate business while I was still at the University of South Florida. I tried desperately to sell homes for nearly six months unsuccessfully and I had my break when I listed and sold an office building. From that point forward, office buildings were my business.

That took me to Denver, Colorado in 1981 with a firm then known as Urban Investment and Development Company – it was the fourth largest developer at the time and handled the leasing and marketing of a 2.8 million square foot office complex in the heart of Downtown Denver. It’s in Denver that I fell in love with the city.

Growing up in Clearwater, I was much more familiar with the beachfront than I was urban areas, but living six months initially at the Fairmont Hotel in Downtown Denver and then, later living in a high-rise condominium in Larimer Square, a few short walks from my office, I just fell in love with the Downtown area.

I continued with office leasing, which brought me to New Orleans, Louisiana, where I spent a year. Following that assignment, I was brought here to Nashville, Tennessee by Aladdin Resources, which was the developer/owner of an 850-acre mix-used business park called MetroCenter.

After a couple of years with them, I started my own company, Giarratana, Inc. and I’ve been without a real job ever since.

MK: So, after being in all those different places from Florida to Denver, circling in almost it seems like, why did you settle down here in Nashville?

TG: Well, it’s an interesting question. In the mid to late 80’s, I had received a fabulous offer to take over the leasing and marketing of Koll Company’s Southern California properties. I would have taken that assignment and moved to Southern California – Orange County, but two things happened.

Number one, my then girlfriend who was from Alabama, told me that she would not move with me to California and Nashville announced that it was going to build a new airport.

Growing up in Florida, I saw what the impact of a new airport had on the Tampa Bay area when I was growing up and I looked at Nashville, Tennessee as an area that had everything going for it – all the highway access, the river, tremendous quality of life, major corporate presence, particularly in the healthcare field. A very intelligent populous with 17 colleges and universities within the geographic area of Nashville. Now, with the introduction of an airport, which I felt would really stimulate the economy, I decided this would be a great place to set down roots and pursue my dream of having my own development company.

MK: When you fell in love with Denver – Downtown and the urban environment – and brought that love here in Nashville and saw the opportunity, what is it on our national market you see as the trends towards to this urban redevelopment, coming back to downtown areas and buildings? Moving people back into the city, sort of the ebb and flow of the marketplace going out into the suburbs and back in. What is it that’s driving them back in right now?

TG: I love listening to you. Just to talk about it is very exciting for me. There are so many dynamics at work. There’s no one thing.

First, Downtown Denver, Colorado was so exciting because it has so many spectacular buildings. While I was there during the early 80’s, there were three towers over 50 stories tall, built simultaneously. Now, the oil and gas market collapsed soon there after, so it was not a very happy time to be in the office business in Denver, Colorado, but it was just an exciting place to be. You cannot underestimate the power and excitement that a skyscraper holds for a community.

So, the dynamic of the tall building is very much at work here. You think of Chicago, you immediately think of John Hancock or Sears. You think of New York, many, many other buildings, but the first words out of your mouth would be Chrysler and Empire State Building. Then, you’d go to Rockefeller, Citicorp and all those other great buildings. So, having a city that has great architecture is very, very important.

Downtown Nashville…it’s at risk of losing this honor, but has had the highest concentration of office space in the entire region right here in this small eight block-by-eight block area called Downtown Nashville, Tennessee.

MK: You’re talking about density?

TG: Yes, density of office concentration. It has over 60% of the cultural venues in the Davidson County area, with Tennessee Performing Arts Center and the new Schermerhorn Symphony Hall, the First Visual Arts Center – all of the different opera and ballet. All the other cultural venues – the Ryman Auditorium and the live music that occurs at Sommet. This is very much a magnet for the arts and culture. The Tennessee Art League has offices right here on Broadway and Downtown Nashville.

It has the Riverfront, which historically has been ignored for 100+ years, but only last year, then Mayor Purcell decided to make a huge investment, a $40 million investment that would be funded over a five-year period of time. He seeded that investment with $8 million with the hopes that $8 million a year will be invested in this reclamation of the Riverfront verse what has occurred where the city has turned its back to the river and now, embraced the river. It’s very, very exciting. I personally am not active in that, but it doesn’t matter that I’m not involved directly in it. I can get very excited about it. I think what’s good for Downtown Nashville is good for me and what’s good for me is good for Downtown Nashville. So, all of those dynamics are at work.

Additionally and speaking specifically about Downtown Nashville, $1.325 billion of public and private investment has been made in Downtown Nashville just since the year 2000. That’s a phenomenal investment, but add to that $1.8 billion worth of investment that’s currently on the drawing boards. As you know, if I had my materials with me, I could show you all those projects and you’d immediately say, “Hey, I think the Convention Center’s going to cost a little bit more than the $455 million.”

Putting that aside, just assuming the $1.8 billion is correct. That’s $3.1 billion invested in a small land area that already had a lot going for it. That’s a phenomenal amount of investment and will have a phenomenal impact on the attractiveness of Downtown as a place to live, work, play and invest.

All this sets the stage now for residential development. We started back in 1993 with the notion of building residential in Downtown Nashville. The first thing we had to do was to amend the zoning code, which since 1963 had prohibited residential in the CC zone district and is the historic Downtown. We petitioned the Metro Council to change that zone code. They were quite frankly, surprised to learn that I was there asking them to do something that they didn’t even know had been a prohibition. They said, “Why can’t you build residential in Downtown Nashville?” Nobody had any perspective whatsoever on this, so it was an easy approval.

We built the Cumberland. It opened in 1998 with not a single resident. We were able to do no pre-leasing. It was very, very difficult to lease. By the time I got that building leased, I swore I’d never do another residential building in Downtown Nashville, but an interesting phenomenon happened as these initial leases, as I said no sooner had I leased it up, one-year leases were beginning to expire and these people were leaving the building. I’d go to them and say, “My goodness. Why are you leaving the building? Have I done something inappropriate? Do you not like the building? Do you not like the city?” Eighty plus percent of them told me that they loved the Downtown experience, loved the building, but they wanted to build equity in something that they could own, to take advantage of the historically low interest rates, the mortgage interest deduction. They wanted to own something and would tell me, “Tony, why don’t you build something that we can own?”

Frankly, not knowing what that would be I did the only natural thing, which is to ask, “What would you like me to build you?” What they designed was the Viridian, so we very boldly pursued the development of this 31-story $80 million high-rise residential condominium tower in Downtown Nashville with absolutely nothing to point to in Downtown Nashville to suggest this would be successful, except for the fact that our consumers said, “If you build this, we will buy it.”

It was just a natural – by all measures, it’s an out-of-the-park homerun. It’s a complete success from every possible measurement you can imagine. Economic of course, societal, the impact it’s had on stimulating the rebirth of residential in Downtown Nashville, the first urban grocery since 1967…that grocery would not work…it’s working beautifully at the base of Viridian.

The building has won the Urban Land Institute Award from the Atlanta Regional Council and most recently, the national award by Multi-Family Executives as Project of the Year in the United States – Multi-Family Project of the Year right here in Nashville, Tennessee.

So, we started introducing residential. We were very pioneering in the venture. Even our Encore project is very pioneering in that it’s the first high-rise residential in SoBro. But, all the dynamics were at work here. The final piece of the puzzle was the Boomer population. Only recently has Nashville media picked up on this.

There’s a young lady named Linda Bryant that is currently doing a story on this and she called me to ask me questions I said, “Linda, bless you. I’m so excited that Nashville finally gets it.”

By 2009, the Boomers will be the most important demographic anywhere in the United States in terms of urban housing. The Boomers, when they came on the scene in 1946, dominated the US economy. Now, as the Boomers turn 60 years old, the Boomers will again dominate the marketplace.

Downtown Nashville – all the residential, all of our product, everything that everybody else is building – all geared towards the same demographic. The young, as I affectionately refer to them – hip-and-cool, the twenty-something’s and thirty-something’s that want the product that we’re building. We’re going to build more product for it because we’ve not satisfied that demand.

But, we feel that the Boomers…we anticipated this back in 2003…will be looking for something different. They’re mature professionals, sophisticated empty-nesters. They’re not going to be satisfied with the same thing that the hip-and-cool were looking for. They want more and that “more” is what we’re building today.

MK: We haven’t even alluded to the name of it, yet, but we’re referring to the Signature Tower…

TG: Yes, sir.

MK: Before I get to the question on the Signature, Downtown Nashville, in comparison to other cities and other markets, is still grossly underserved in its residential square footage. You were responsible for more square footage in the residential marketplace Downtown than anybody else.

TG: Well, we’re very pleased to have a part in this. There’re many, many smart developers here in this town doing some wonderful projects. Our focus has been the urban core, the CC zone district, the historic Downtown of Nashville in all of the high-rise product we have done. In SoBro, we’re the only developer of new, high-rise product.

So, these are our two areas of concentration and we are very proud about the buildings that we’ve added in those two markets. We have essentially dominated that scene.

On the adaptive reuse front in Downtown Nashville, Aaron White of Core Development has done a magnificent job. He’s one of my favourite developers. I tour his projects and love what I see. He’s very, very creative. But, our focus has been new construction.

The statistics in Downtown Nashville don’t match-up with the headlines you read. Unfortunately, the sensational headlines that really talk about national phenomenon like Vegas and Florida where there’s been massive overbuilding and just meteoric rises in interest in housing prices. That simply didn’t happen in Nashville, Tennessee, so while certain areas that overbuilt and had just spectacular price increases experience a correction, most other markets in the country are doing very, very well. Prices are actually rising. You’re going to see some statistics on that released by the Board of Realtors as early as this week.

In Downtown Nashville, there are roughly 1,100 existing condominium homes – that’s it! That’s the entire market. Under construction, there’s another 1,000 units. Those will all be completed in the spring and summer of 2008. Once those are all completed, 2,100 units will be the entirety of the market. Everything on the drawing board represents about 1,500 units. If all of that could be completed by 2009, that would be 3,600 units.

Certainly, all of that won’t be completed by 2009. It simply can’t be done. But, all of the experts like Robert Charles Lesser, ERA, consultants, they all predict the need for housing in Downtown Nashville of 5,200 units.

Well, we can’t get there. We may be halfway there in 2009, but even if we could have 5,200, that would put us 50% or less than any of our peer cities, which includes Charlotte, Memphis, Indianapolis and St. Louis. We are grossly behind ½-⅓ of what our peer cities have.

It’s interesting to talk about a city like Denver where I spent time. I lived in one of the high-rises. I bought it cheap, I sold it cheap when I left. Right across the street from me was Writer Square. They couldn’t sell these units. Today, there is an absolute explosion of condominium residences in Downtown Denver. It’s unbelievable – all the Downtown residents.

I don’t have that number on the tip of my tongue, but I will tell you about the same timeframe in the early 80’s, there were two condominium towers in Downtown San Diego – two of them. Both of them were in receivership. Today, there are nearly 30,000 people living in Downtown San Diego and I think 29% of them are over 55 years old.

That number in Nashville hovers around 10% of the total number of people that live Downtown, so we’re definitely in out infancy. We are by no means, a mature market. We have a long way to go. It will be another decade before we are at a position where we’ll be stabilized.

MK: Let’s talk about that generation – the Baby Boomers and the product you’re building for the Signature Tower. It’s slated to be currently, I guess, the third tallest building in the US.

TG: The numbers that I’ve heard would make it the seventh tallest and the tallest building outside of Chicago and New York.

MK: The question everybody wants to know, of course, you’re asked every week is how far along you are in your pre-selling and when are you breaking ground.

TG: I am asked that question…you said every week…I think it’s…

MK: …everyday, twice a day.

TG: …breakfast, lunch, dinner and everything in between.

Let me tell you the path that we’re on in Signature Tower. We launched the project in 2003 and we set five goals for ourselves with the project.

Number one – the project, we wanted to get all of the drawings done, all of the construction documents for this building. Number two – we wanted to buy the land.
Number three – we wanted to get all of the entitlements for this project. This is a very complex skyscraper of a building. It’s the first building to be designed pursuant to the 2006 building code in the state of Tennessee. The code was just adopted two months ago.

I’m happy to report that we have in fact, bought the land, we have in fact, completed the drawings and we have in fact, received all the entitlements.

On the presale front, point number four – we wanted to presell half the units. Well, we got to a quarter of the units and then, the market slowed and that’s where we are right now. We need to sell another 100 condos. We’re doing them two and three units at a time. We’re working very, very aggressively to get that done as soon as possible. So, we’re about half way, maybe about 55% of our way through our presale goal.

The last issue was a guaranteed max price contract from our general contractor. We had selected a general contractor 15 months ago. For whatever reason, we weren’t able to get there. In August, we had to let that contractor go. No hard feelings. We wish them the best. They wish us the best. We just need to identify a new general contractor that can provide the quality product, the scope of the product that we have at the budget we’ve established for this project. That’s very fundamental, but very, very important.

So, three of the five goals that we set for ourselves have been achieved. We’re working aggressively on the remaining two.

The excavation for this project, the permits are already in hand. The excavation for this project takes five months. It’s approximately $5 million in five months and we’re looking to start that work this calendar year, so we’re very committed to the project.

If you’re too polite to ask me the question, is Signature Tower going to go, I’ll just go ahead and give you the answer to that. Yes in fact, it is going to go. We’ve got $22 million invested in this property. If it takes us a little longer to get the presales, so be it. We’re not going to be happy about it, but we’re committed to the project long-term. Signature Tower is not like anything else that we’ve ever done.

Typically in our development projects, we have well over $150 million worth of development going on right now. All the projects follow the same path: identify a financial partner; then launch-off on preliminary drawings; secure basic entitlements; and move on from there.

Signature Tower – we took a different path. It’s a skyscraper. It’s a very significant building. It’s a historic event in Downtown Nashville. We didn’t take the path of identifying a financial partner because it’s too grand for that. How are you going to show a picture to somebody and say, “Hey, would you like to be a part of a historic building in Downtown Nashville?” It’s just too outrageous by Nashville standards.

So, we made it and we have all the investment today, all the progress we’ve made, we’ve done without a third party financial partner. Only today, this physical day, we sent out a memorandum to a select group of possible investors, saying, “Listen, we’re now ready to accept some third-party capital with which to get the excavation of this project underway while we work to complete the presales, while we work to complete the guaranteed maximum price contract for this building.”

So, I’ve got an entire team here, dozens of professionals that are under contract – architects, engineers and others out in the field. We’re committed to making this project a magnificent addition to Downtown skyline.

MK: Now, this is purely speculation, but you just put a property up for sale in the North Gulch area. Are you planning to use the proceeds of that to help push this along a little further or is that completely separate altogether?

TG: What’s funny, in a recent newspaper article, they linked the sale of that to the fact that we’re working on a new tower in the SoBro area. They’re really unrelated, but the Gulch property, I originally started pursuing in 2001. I contracted for this Polar Cold Storage building that sits on approximately six acres, worked on a plan to convert that building to 80 loft-style residence. Completed the drawings, a local architectural firm did it. Took it to the development agency – they weren’t interested in creating a new development district. Took it to the historic preservationist – they didn’t think the building had any historic significance, so there were no tax credits available for that. Took it to the state, looking to see if there might be some interest in some tax credits for some housing for the state – there was no interest there. So, I let my contract go at the time.

During the time I was working on this, I contracted to buy the adjoining acreage from CSX. Well, one thing led to another – it took about two years for that closing to occur. When it was about ready to close on that portion of the land, it was almost nine acres there, I called the Polar Cold Storage people and I said, “Hey, would you like to sell that building. They said, “Yes.” So, I bought the entire nine acres, not really having a specific plan for development.

Since that time, my partners and I have gotten very active in the SoBro area with Encore, very active in preparation for the development of a second tower in SoBro. So, the decision was made not to pursue development of a new area for us in the Gulch, but rather to liquidate that asset, and yes, divert those funds into whatever we might want to divert them to, including SoBro and our urban developments.

So, Signature Tower has significant cash requirements, as I mentioned $5 million worth of excavation, that’s $1 million a month. So, Signature Tower is a very large-scale project, requires a lot of capital. Sure, I’ll use a portion of that capital in Signature Tower but other portions of it will go somewhere else. The property in the Gulch is much more valuable today because of the success of the Gulch, Capital G that Steve Turner, Bristol and Joe Barker have done there on the other side of Broadway. So, the announcement that Magic Johnson’s involved out there came on the same day we put our property up for sale – we’re pretty happy campers.

MK: Let’s talk more about what you just mentioned, about some of your interest in SoBro and you have a development there now called Encore. You just mentioned another tower you’re working on. What are your long-term visions for that area in SoBro besides this tower or whatever else you see happening down there.

TG: Well, it’s interesting. I think you’ll see a reoccurring theme. We like to do projects that 80-90% of the population thinks we’re a little bit crazy. When we introduced apartments at the corner of 6th and Church, I’ll tell you that 99% of Nashvillians didn’t think the project would ever be built or certainly, if it got built, it wouldn’t be successful. It got built, it was successful. The folks that we sold it to, at a profit, are enjoying record rents. It’s a wonderful success story.

At the conclusion of that transaction, they asked us to convert the top four floors to condominiums and we sold those top four floors as high as $458 per square foot, absolutely phenomenal. The Viridian was pioneering, likewise the Encore building, was viewed as a little bit ahead of it’s time.

I first brought my partners out there and said, “This is where we need to build our next tower.” They looked to the left and looked to the right and they said, “My goodness gracious! You can get by a golf cart here, you can get a new engine for your car. You can get your bumpers chromed but what you can’t do is live and you can’t shop. Why would you want to be here?” I said, “Oh, but there’s something coming called the Schermerhorn Symphony Hall.”

So, we bought that land before SoBro got cool and we bought it very, very attractively. We were able to get that project underway, no presales whatsoever. We broke ground in May, waited until after September when the Schermerhorn Symphony Hall introduced the world to SoBro, the area south of Broadway. We opened our Sales Center in late October and we’re almost 85% pre-sold on that unit. We won’t be completed to provide occupancy to the first resident until sometime in February or March of 2008.

MK: What about the other tower you mentioned briefly?

TG: The second tower would be largely residential – predominantly residential with at least 300 units.

MK: Is that just near it or behind it?

TG: It’s in close proximity to it. We have a site, a Phase II site, but the site that we’ve identified for our second tower is not the site that we already own. That’s going to surprise people that I think everybody certainly expects us to build our second tower in the site that we already control. But there’s another site that came available to us that was very exciting to us and we’re very enthused. I think that when we announce our plans for it, I think people will get very, very excited.

But the second tower will be largely residential. Like the first tower, it will have retail at the base. Encore has 20,000 square feet of retail. The second tower may actually have more retail at the base and this time we’d like to do something a little differently. If possible is work with the city. Rather than just build a parching garage that serves our building, like we do with every one of our buildings, work with the city so it could be shared not only with our homeowners and retailers but also with the Downtown dynamic of SoBro. Parking for the Symphony, the Country Music Hall of Fame, overflow parking for the Pinnacle building, parking for events at the Sommet Center, there’s lot of exciting things that a large scale-parking garage can help stimulate and facilitate.

I think that’s a more appropriate development model if we can pull it off. It’s going to take the cooperation of a number of different apartments but I think we can get it done.

MK: To close out, let’s go back to the Signature Tower.

TG: It’s my favourite thing to talk about.

MK: It’s your favourite. Everybody is talking about Signature Tower. Who do you consider your competition for that building? Is it here in this market or is it somewhere else? When people are looking to buy a unit there – maybe you see it that they’re Baby Boomers, maybe retiring just looking for a place to settle down. Are they looking between Atlanta/ Nashville or are they looking between Signature or some other project?

TG: Let me answer it this way. I make a practice of never saying anything negative about anybody else’s projects. I believe that a rising tide lifts all ships and I want everybody to be successful.

So, whenever I’m doing a comparison, I always talk about my own buildings. I talk about the Cumberland, the Viridian, the Encore, the Bennie Dillon, our Belle Meade projects, etc. I can tell you that none of those projects are in the same category as the Signature Tower. From ground up, Signature Tower is meant to be a statement for Nashville, Tennessee.

From the structure, from the glass and glazing, the ornamental crown at the top, the elevators at 1,200 feet per minute. The amenities of a fine boutique hotel, the services such as 24-hour a day room service, concierge service and maid service. Valet parking, an on-site restaurant, spa, two pools, essentially an urban resort on a 15,000 square foot activity deck in the back, this building is not like anything else in the market.

If I toured you through our existing product and then I took you over to the Sales Center for Signature Tower, you will immediately see the differences in the bathrooms. You’ll immediately see the difference in the kitchens. You’d see the quality of this building would just be absolutely and immediately evident to you.

Things like powder rooms and pantries that are just not part of the vocabulary of the hip and cool. They’re not important elements for that particular demographic. All of our buyers of this particular product demand powder rooms, demand pantries.

The cabinetry is custom cabinetry by Wood-Mode, which is voted year after year in all of the surveys last year, 20,000 architects, engineers and interior planners, voted Wood-Mode Cabinetry the finest custom cabinetry in America today. That’s standard within our building.

All the appliances are Sub Zero, Wolf, top of the line cooler fixtures. Wood flooring and top of the line floor coverings, tiles, granites, marbles. It’s just the finishes are all extraordinary. The bathrooms, almost all of them have both garden tubs and large showers, water closets with pocket doors. These are just things that you don’t see in these other projects and that’s the beginning.

The building is built squarely to accommodate the discerning buyer, the mature professional, the sophisticated empty nester. When the building is completed in 2010, those in Nashville that don’t get it when I sit here and talk about it, they will understand completely. Those lucky few that step up and pre-purchase the first 200 of these units will look like geniuses in 2010, I assure you.

ML: Well, Tony, we could go on and on talking about all these different developments. I appreciate you taking the time and I’ll spare my listeners going on any longer.

TG: Great. Thank you so much and please visit our website at www.signaturetowernashville.com for more information.

MK: Great. Thanks, Tony.

TG: Thank you.

(Music Up)

MK: I want to thank you all for turning in to another episode of the NAI Nashville Market Report. We want to hear from you, please be sure to stop by our website at www.nainashville.com. There you’ll find all of our contact info or you can e-mail me directly at podcast@nainashville.com.

If you have any ideas for future programs or guest interviews, please be sure to drop me a line to let me know and we’ll do our best to arrange that. We’re certainly open to suggestions.

I just want to thank all of you for giving us some excellent feedback on the daily e-mails that we sent out covering commercial real estate items, we’ll continue to offer that. You can also subscribe to those updates at our website as well.

So that does it for today, please be sure to tune in again in the future for another NAI Nashville Market Report podcast. Again, I’m your host, Mark Krejci, and we’ll see you again next time.

(Music Out)

©2007 NAI Nashville
300 Broadway, Nashville, TN 37201
(615) 850-2700, www.nainashville.com

For this episode of the NAI Nashville Market Report podcast, I sat down with Nashville’s premier developer Tony Giarratana, president of Giarratana Development. When residents of Nashville think of housing in the downtown area, the name Tony Giarratana is the first to come to mind. In fact, Giarratana and his partners are responsible for the majority of the housing in the Central Business District. Giarratana’s focus on the downtown market has been constant since he formed his development company in 1986.

In this interview we discuss Tony’s background and experience, what brought him to Nashville and his various developments including the much anticipated Signature Tower.

If you are reading this through email or an RSS reader, please be sure to stop by our web site at NAInashville.com to listen or download this episode and subscribe for free to future updates.

In this episode of the NAI Nashville Market Report, Richard Lawson of the Nashville City Paper joined us as we sat down with John L. Knott, the President and CEO of the Noisette company.  John was recently in town to speak at a local Urban Land Institute Event entitled “Regenerating Healthy Urban Communities for the 21st Century“.

Noisette is a 3,000-acre, sustainable urban redevelopment effort in North Charleston, South Carolina, which includes 350 acres that were once part of the Charleston Naval Complex, that are being transformed into a new mixed-use urban community called the Navy Yard at Noisette.

While here in Nashville, we have great resources like The Plan of Nashville and a very healthy development environment, its always good to step back and look at the sustainability of these communities we’re creating.  In this episode we adress this issue from a macro viewpoint and also look at how Nashville is doing from John’s viewpoint.

If you’re reading this through email or an RSS reader, please be sure to stop by our web site to get more information on these issues and many others affecting our marketplace in Nashville, Tennessee.

John Knott
“The Noisette Project”
(Noisette Company)
November 5, 2007

JK: Unfortunatly the way we’ve been planning our developments and planning our cities, it’s been more about the physical infrastructure or the physical buildings. It’s not organized around the concept of social health.

(Music Up)

MK: This is the NAI Nashville report for Monday, November 5th, 2007. I’m Marc Krejci, the Director of Market Research here at NAI. This is a podcast where we feature commercial real estate news and events happening in the Middle Tennessee area.

On today’s podcast, we have a very special guest. We have John Knott from the Noisette Company in South Carolina. The Noisette Project is one of the largest sustainable developments in our country. We have a special guest interviewer today, Richard Lawson from the Nashville City Paper who came on to interview John for us. John was in town for a local Urban Land Institute event and he took some time out from his day to speak with us about his project going on in South Carolina and how it may relate to some of the projects we have here in Nashville.

So, I hope you enjoy the podcast. Please be sure to stop by our website at anytime, at www.nainashville.com where you can see archives of past shows. You can also see daily news items relating to our commercial market place. So, please be sure to log on there and subscribe to updates using either e-mail, iTunes or the RSS feed.

So, without further ado, let’s get into the interview and I’ll come back afterwards.

(Music Out)

RL: We’re here with John Knott, co-founder and CEO of the Noisette Company, who has been spending the past 20 years of his life doing urban redevelopment, sustainable development In Charleston, South Carolina, a city that is quite often considered a model for urban redevelopment and historic preservation.

Welcome, John.

JK: Thank you.

RL: Let’s start with your latest project, the Naval Shipyard project down there. That’s got to be an interesting project considering it is formerly a nuclear shipyard.

JK: Yes. What we have, it’s about a 1,600-acre naval facility. We have 350 acres of that facility. The shipyard is controlled by a private user, then the Port Authority and federal enclave has the southern 800 acres of the facility. The 3,000 Noisette area is 2,600 acres of the existing city, which is the original founding city. This 3,000 acres is 90% of the founding city of the City of North Charleston when it was incorporated in 1972. So, it’s a pretty massive project.

RL: What all are they doing in there? What type of residential, what type of commercial, what type of retail, that kind of stuff?

JK: The 3,000-acre area has, within the 2,600-acre area, there are 13,000 who live there. There was an existing over about 5,400 housing units and about 4 million square feet of existing commercial and industrial facilities very much in an economic and social depressed area.

So, you had housing trading at $54 a square foot. Vacancies at 50%, commercial vacancies in the 70% range, commercial property trading at the $40,000-50,000 an acre range. So, the crime rates were extensive in the area and in the closed shipyards. We actually did a master plan for the 3,000-acre area as a sustainable rebuilding of that original core city.

On our navy yard property, we’re developing 6-10 million square feet of commercial and retail, 5,000-7,000 housing units in that range. So, it’s a very urban mixed-use, kind of old Boston scales, if you want to think in terms of an image. We’ve re-developed about a million square feet of foot warehouse and flex space, about another 2,050 square feet of office.

RL: For those who don’t really know what sustainable development means, give us kind of a brief definition of sustainable development.

JK: There are a lot of definitions out there. For us, it really means triple-bottom line. It means that we’re looking to serve the social, economic and environmental health of the entire community, not just our group long term. So, every decision we’re making is a long term decision, balanced in those three sectors, and across every economic level.

The Brundtland Commission definition was basically, conducting your affairs in such a way that what you consume today does not jeopardize the quality of life or the ability of future generations to live better than you live today.

RL: In that vein, you talk about the environmental side of it, obviously, being there with the naval shipyard and it being closed, what kind of environmental issues did you guys have to work through to get it ready for any kind of development?

JK: Well, actually, this is the first property that the military closed where they…we’re actually doing this to clean up in advance and had it insured. They used private contractors, so the shipyard was primarily cleaned up. The residential standards, through navy contracts, it was about a $70 million on the land. They did not clean up the buildings.

So, most of our work in clean up has to do with asbestos, lead and all types of other things that you find in buildings. If we happen to find other things in the land itself, then the navy is required, by law and by contract, to come back and clean it up, of course, and compensate us if we have to do the clean up. Of course, nobody gives you the person whoever signs the check and the treasury to do that so we actually have a $20 million insurance liability policy that’s an environmental policy that will actually bridge that funding gap, if we have to get into a more extensive clean up on the land.

RL: In terms of selling the houses, do you have to worry about convincing people, “No, you won’t glow after a while.” Anything like that?

JK: No. We have spent so much time focused on the ecosystem restoration around the area. We’ve built public parks already. We’ve got 10 ½ acres of Riverfront Park open. I think we’ve really integrated people into the place in such a way and finally made it accessible after 105 years. We just have thousands of people in there every week, in activities and different efforts.

So, people are getting used to being in this base and seeing that it’s a fairly healthy place, and it’s not a big problem with the environmental conditions.

RL: Have you started selling houses to residents or move anybody in?

JK: We have no residents living there except for places that we’re renting or leasing that are already existing in the officers housing area. Our first new residential development will break ground in the second quarter of ’08. We have 500 housing units under contract for land sales with other developers. Remember, these are all vertical, so we’re not selling lots, we’re selling parcels, we’re vertical development. It’s mixed-use are going on those properties.

We have about 700,000-800,000 square feet of commercial, institutional and retail development that has already been contracted. We have, as I said, about a million square feet to a million one that we’ve already leased on the base. We have 61 new businesses, 800 employees in the navy yard now. In the Noisette area, in the 3,000-acre area, there are 2,200 housing units under development now. Probably about 300-400 of those are now occupied. That’s in an area where nothing was being developed for 20 plus years.

RL: So this slowing housing sales nationally hasn’t seem to hit Charleston just yet.

JK: No, it’s hit Charleston in certain areas but it has not hit us. We’re in a very central location. We’re five minutes from the airport, we have the best access off 26 and 526. We have better access than the City of Charleston itself. We also have a very strong affordability factor. If you look at the peninsula, which is at the south of us, you’re looking at a mean of probably $700 a square foot. If you look at Mt. Pleasant, Old Village and those areas to the east of us, you’re looking at an average of probably 600,000 or 700,000. As you go further out it’s 500,000, Daniel Island it’s 600,000, Summerville it’s 300,000. We were starting at a mean of $54 a square foot, which is sensitive at 60,000 mean in 2001. Today, we’re probably at a mean of about 180,000.

So, the properties in that area are trading so substantially bellow even the mean of the overall market no matter where you go, with this financial crisis and everything else, everything is falling to us. So, we’re in the right position. We’re not in the upper end of the market.

RL: So, you guys are kind of the cradle?

JK: Yes, and we’re so well located. The fact that we have such stringent environmental standards for even our single-family residential, with the Noisette Quality Home Standard, every property that’s being developed, we’re doing in an exoteric reserve, every single house. We’ve got 108 builders, 100 lots already sold. We’ve got 20 up, another 20 under construction. Everything is pre-sold. We just don’t have enough supply.

RL: That’s good to have sort of that problem, I think, especially when there’s a market that’s not a good market. Tell us, what was the biggest hurdle in sort of working through all this and doing the master planning and getting them moving forward.

JK: I think that the biggest hurdle in the master planning was probably, initially, having the confidence of the community. Just remember, here we are as a developer, master planning 3,000 acres of a city that we don’t own and we’re not under contract to the city. We actually invested that money ourselves. So, the first question by anybody in the community is, “What are you doing here?”

RL: …and, “Why do you care?”

JK: “Why do you care?” “What are all these standards?” “I’ve never seen a developer like this,” and “Do you expect us to trust you?” My first answer to that question is, “Absolutely not. I don’t expect you to trust us. I expect you to listen to what we say. I expect you to see if we do what we say, that we do what we say or exceed what we say, then you can start to consider whether you’ll trust us.”

So, we’ve engaged over 4,000 people in these communities over 2 ½ years to build this master plan. So, it’s their plan, it’s not our plan. Once that conversion was made, went for our approvals, our next problem was, as the turnaround of the area, this area was not as upchuck an area as…

RL: Well, it was in the shadow of the naval shipyard, so it had to be very depressed when the shipyard just closed.

JK: It was, and it had declined over time, but it was also very blue collar. It had always been blue collar. It was on an area that was very kind of Wild West, rough-and-tumble kind of place versus the rest of the area of Charleston. Charleston is well known for its attitude so you kind of look down your nose. Then, when the decline happened a lot of other problems set in as well. Of course, the stuff that you see around any shipyard, with all that transiency in a shipyard, all the associated professions that find themselves around a shipyard, doesn’t add to the economic…it adds a certain economic health but not to the overall health of the city.

RL: So they had interesting entertainment options.

JK: Yes, they did. They had very interesting entertainment options. That’s a good way of putting it.

So, I think that once this thing started to turn around, which everybody thought was impossible, what started happening was business interest that didn’t really want to be in it, didn’t see any value, all of a sudden started to see value there. But that wasn’t being controlled by them, it was being controlled by us. We weren’t from there so that created its own problems. Then, the Redevelopment Authority was supposed to be transferring the land to the city, all of a sudden, delayed the transfer for three years, because they really didn’t seem to have much interest in transferring the land. That was the state authority that have been created that was one of the few bases in the country that have been closed to sit entirely in one city, and the city had no control over what was going on the base.

RL: Your lobbyist must have been really busy.

JK: I had no lobbyist.

RL: So, you must have been really busy.

JK: Yes.

RL: What could Nashville learn from some of the stuff you’ve done there? That’s a big project. I don’t think we have anything quite that large going on here. It’s more in pocket. I guess, probably, the biggest would be Rolling Mill Hill perhaps.

JK: Well, I think you have to think about this in a different way. I mean we’re effectively leveraging 350 acres of direct development to influence and assist the transformation over 3,000 urban-acre area that we don’t own. So, you certainly have projects like the Gulch and others that could leverage themselves beyond their property.

What we’ve done is several things. One is we’ve really taken the leadership to create a true community based planning process that isn’t a charrette that you come in for a week, puts some drawings up, then say, “What do you think?” and then come back. It’s a very iterate process. It engages people in a conversation about what they like, what they don’t like and what they think is missing in the neighbourhood, by neighbourhood, by neighbourhood, meeting by meeting, by meeting to reform. It’s basically, applying strategic planning, business strategic planning, that you would run in your corporation, to strategic planning for a city. So, it’s a very different master planning process.

Second component is whole community involvement process. We’ve been building a model for 35 years of how to engage communities in this conversation.

The third is, for the first time we were able to get to the system. We can’t fix our cities unless we start getting to the systems level. That means you’ve got to get to scale, because you can’t design sustainable infrastructure, you can’t fix your social problems and you can’t get that resolved unless you get to that large scale level.

So, we, in the first time in this country, have really moved to that level and created a model for that. So, I think that it’s totally transferable, even if the city were to conduct it, you could conduct an entire urban initiative within a city conducted it. We actually talked about that at the meeting we had at the Chamber today.

So, I think there are a lot of lessons but I also think the lesson here is that we believe that the social health of everybody in the community, from conception to death, is at the core of how you plan. Unfortunately, the way we’ve been planning our developments and planning our cities, it’s been more about the physical infrastructure or the physical buildings. It’s not organized around the concept of social health.

RL: Have you had a chance to look at the Plan of Nashville?

JK: I have not seen the Plan of Nashville, I’ve seen the book. I want to get the Plan of Nashville when I go to the Design Forum tonight. I’ve been hearing a lot about it. I’m actually blown away by what I’ve seen here physically. What I’ve see is really good thinking. You could see it physically in the forms here. You could see it in the kind of investment in buildings. You could see it in some of your public infrastructures. But what you can’t see is the social side of this thing. So, I asked the key question today at this meeting, where are you in this holistic thinking process about seeing how all these systems that are physical systems are connected to all the social systems that in an integrated way, serve the health for everybody in the region equally.

RL: I don’t know that the city or I don’t think that folks have really thought about it at that level. That would be a very interesting exercise to go with it.

JK: That’s what everybody in the room said, they hadn’t thought of it. One of the things that we talked about today with the research person at the Chamber was in our work around the country – if you go to chapter 2 or 3 in our master planning you’ll see these charts. But what we’re finding over the last 30 years in this country is that the average density per square mile has reduced by at least half. That means a number people per square mile has reduced.

What that means is you’re having to deploy infrastructure and social service systems. When I say social service systems, I’m not talking about welfare. Social service systems are things like police, schools, fire; all those are social service systems. Those systems are having to be deploy